Tuesday, October 16, 2012

The good ole days....What was good about them?

I knew my last post on Affirmative action would cause the trolls to come out.

My suspicions was right.

Somebody calling themselves VARGR; responded by calling Affirmative Action "Anti-White"..

Seriously?

We did agree however that as it stands right now the program is flawed; we disagree with aspects of the program. Well... I agree with aspects of the program...he/she disagrees with the whole thing. He/she thinks that it should be abolished. He/she thinks that it was never needed in the first place. He/she seems to believe that the way things were is the way things should have stayed.

I do agree that a business should be able to hire or fire any and everyone that they want. It is their business after all.
If a business wants to hire all family members, friends, dogs cats, Martians; then they should be able to do so. Without the government getting involved. Quite frankly it is none of the Government's business.

I also think that the most qualified person should come into a new situation with a hands up over someone that is not qualified. Color, sex, sexual preference be damned. But that would only apply in a world were I was running shit. As it stands now and as you all know; I ain't running nothing but my mouth.

So we have to make due with what we have and what we have is a society that if you happen to be born the "wrong" color, the "wrong" sex, or have the "wrong" sexual preference; then you are on your own.

Whoever the hell VARGR is should know this. That is if he/she was born and raised in this "land of opportunity."

For this dude/female to say that this program was never needed in the first place; with all the DOCUMENTED cases of past and current DISCRIMINATION against anyone in this country that wasn't born male and Caucasian, is laughable.

It is an ignorant Fox news informed opinion.

If this program was not enacted on March 6, 1961; there would be no Black, Hispanic, Asian, Women..... nothing in business. There would be no diversity what so ever. The demographic representation of this country would be unbalanced in the work place.

To say that this program is ANTI-WHITE is so pathetic sounding it does not deserve a response. But I am going to respond to it anyway.

How in the hot-ass blond haired blue eyed hell can you, VARGR, fix your mouth to say some dumb shit like that?

How is this program ANTI-WHITE when it was voted on and approved by WHITE politicians?

How is it ANTI-WHITE when it originally benefited WHITE women?

How is it ANTI-WHITE when 95% of all business's in this country are ran by WHITE CEO's and owned by WHITE men?

It should not have been enacted in the first place, says you?
So you think that it is ok to discriminate against a HUMAN BEING for the sole reason that they would not fit in at your family reunion?

The "others" in this country do not have the right to grow and establish wealth for their families?
We do not have the right to showcase our skills in ways that do not include entertaining you?
We do not deserve a chance to sit in a classroom next to your kids?
We cannot move into your neighborhood?

Is this what you are saying VARGR?

This is that bullshit VARGR.

Opinions like yours is one of the reasons that this country will always be fucked up when it comes to race relations and treating people fairly. Opinions like yours is the reason that so many people game the system. Opinions like yours is the reason why I will always be viewed as a BLACK man instead of a MAN... by dumb asses like you. I cannot stand people like you VARGR. I would probably be cool with you as long as I did not try to walk beside you or move in the house beside you...the one with the bigger yard... or date your daughter. The minute I cross that line...I am an affirmative action case. And the system that allowed me to do those things is all of a sudden "ANTI-WHITE." Was it "anti-white" before? When everything was all "white?"Was it "ANTI-WHITE" when I was a step behind and you were in front?

Huh, VARGR?

I apologize if someone "undeserving" took your promotion or your kids college tuition. Or for the fact that the man that represents this country to the world (for the time being anyway) is of a darker hue than you. A man who so many people like you think is unqualified by the way... Who would have thunk it? An "affirmative action" case made it to the White House....

Naaa.. Fuck that.

I ain't apologizing for shit.

Welcome to my World VARGR.

And I thank little Blond haired Blue Eyed Baby Jesus that you are just like me... running nothing but your mouth.

13 comments:

Vargr said...

Mr. Blackman, thank you for dedicating your last post to me even if you deemed all I wrote as "bullshit" without providing any shred of evidence or analysis on why it would be so.

Here is my reply to your latest post. I will have to make several postings to cover all you wrote.

"I knew my last post on Affirmative action would cause the trolls to come out."

I am not a troll. If I was troll I would be calling you names or something. You asked questions about others' opinions on AA; I provided my answers. If you don't like them that does not make me a troll.

"Somebody calling themselves VARGR; responded by calling Affirmative Action "Anti-White".."

I did not "call" AA anti-white. AA is self-evidently anti-white (and anti-male too). I merely pointed it out. No not mistake pointing out facts with voicing an opinion.

"Seriously?"

Yes, seriously.

"We did agree however that as it stands right now the program is flawed."

And to make things clear, I was referring specifically to AA as it is now; not to its whole history.

Vargr said...

"He/she seems to believe that the way things were is the way things should have stayed."

It is "He", Sir. And no, I do not believe any such thing, and please refrain yourself from putting words in my mouth. No where in my post did I mention anything about "things staying the way they were" or "the good old days" as you seem to imply by all the pictures you uploaded on this post. In fact, I never knew those supposedly "good old days" you are alluding to.

"Quite frankly it is none of the Government's business."

I am glad we agree on this part. And I would point out that the "most qualified" person can be a subjective concept and it is up to employer to decide what his/her standards are.

"So we have to make due with what we have and what we have is a society that if you happen to be born the "wrong" color, the "wrong" sex, or have the "wrong" sexual preference; then you are on your own."

Yes. That is pretty much the problem. Being white, male, heterosexual and christian in the USA these days automatically makes you a 2nd-class person. Except if you are born into the elites, but those are so small they are statistically insignificant, demographically speaking.

Vargr said...

"Whoever the hell VARGR is should know this. That is if he/she was born and raised in this "land of opportunity."

I was not born in your land; and it is not a "land of opportunity", not anymore. It's a failed warmongering empire coming apart at the seams and with trillions upon trillions of dollars of debt.

"For this dude/female to say that this program was never needed in the first place; with all the DOCUMENTED cases of past and current DISCRIMINATION against anyone in this country that wasn't born male and Caucasian, is laughable."

No, Mr Blackman. What is truly laughable is your opinion that the way to resolve past state-enforced discrimination is MORE state-enforced discrimination; just with a change of players. That is a self-detonating opinion. Unless, of course, you are making a claim that it isn't discrimination when it is done against white people.

"It is an ignorant Fox news informed opinion."

I do not watch Fox News. In fact, I do not watch North American mainstream media news outlets at all. You are making assumptions about me out of thin air without providing any evidence to back your claims. What about addressing the points I raised instead of making ad hominem attacks?

"If this program was not enacted on March 6, 1961; there would be no Black, Hispanic, Asian, Women..... nothing in business."

So you are saying blacks, hispanics, asians and women are so useless in business the only way they can succeed is via State-enforced mandates (which are backed by coercion and threat of use of force)?

"There would be no diversity what so ever."

"Diversity" is just a code word for "No Whites", so forgive me if I am not particularly concerned about it.

"The demographic representation of this country would be unbalanced in the work place."

So? The demographic representation of every country in the planet since the beginning of time has been unbalanced in practically every facet of life. It is called "reality".

You know what else is unbalanced demographically in the workplace? Female coal miners. not many of those, right? But I don't see anyone throwing a fit over it. "Unbalanced workplace demographics" only matters for things like being a CEO or a Lawyer...fancy that.

Vargr said...

"To say that this program is ANTI-WHITE is so pathetic sounding it does not deserve a response. But I am going to respond to it anyway."

I do hope you realize you're admitting that you are dedicating a whole post to something you deem pathetic...that sounds even *more* pathetic to me.

"How in the hot-ass blond haired blue eyed hell can you, VARGR, fix your mouth to say some dumb shit like that?"

Mr. Blackman, there you go again assuming things about me. I am not blonde, I have black hair; I am not blue-eyed, I am dark brown-eyed. But several women have told me I have a hot ass, so you got 1 out of 3 right.

And I "fix my mouth" saying this "dumb shit" because that "dumb shit" as you call it, is factual and true.

"How is this program ANTI-WHITE when it was voted on and approved by WHITE politicians?"

Who ever said whites cannot be anti-white? There are a lot of self-hating white folks out there, whose mind and spirit has been polluted by cultural marxism.

There are also elite whites who don't give a toss about their own people and are more than willing to screw them over for money and power, as long as they themselves get to keep living on their nice enclosed suburbia communities, safe behind those walls and guards from all the "diversity" they mandate be enforced on the white hoi poloi.

And last but not least, a considerable number of the politicians, bureaucrats and academia behind AA; in fact its biggest supporters from day one until today, were not white...they were jews.

"How is it ANTI-WHITE when it originally benefited WHITE women?"

I was not addressing AA in 1961 but in 2012, but I will indulge you...

I also said AA was anti-male, which has been the case from its inception. Removing millions of white women from home and hearth to work in the marketplace has dreadful demographic effects for white people in the medium and long term. Not to mention the pernicious effect on salaries of white males when the labor force was suddenly ballooned.

"How is it ANTI-WHITE when 95% of all business's in this country are ran by WHITE CEO's and owned by WHITE men?"

What does the ethnic percentages of CEOs in America have to do with AA?
And check your numbers, I am sure you will find many of those "white men" are actually jews.

I think 95% of virginia coal miners are white too. Why aren't you demanding more blacks and hispanics work in those mines? The majority of soldiers dying on the imperial wars of the USA are white. Why aren't you demanding more black and hispanics be sent to the front lines?

We know why, don't we? AA is not about any "workplace demographic" equality farce. It is about ensuring unfit non-whites obtain cushy jobs and academic "education".

Vargr said...

"It should not have been enacted in the first place, says you?"

Says I, and says any other human being that believes the state should keep its violence out of voluntary social interactions between free human beings.

I am against AA for the same reasons i am against Sharia law, Jim Crow laws, the Indian caste system and "No Irish or Dogs Allowed" signs on shops. To do otherwise would be hypocritical.

"So you think that it is ok to discriminate against a HUMAN BEING for the sole reason that they would not fit in at your family reunion?"

I don't know what my family's reunions have to do with this.
But yes, I do reserve the right to discriminate against anyone who wants to drop by one of them.

The same way I discriminate in my choice of friends, partners, etc. If the government comes and says "You have to accept X or Y into your group, otherwise..." that is plainly immoral.

"The "others" in this country do not have the right to grow and establish wealth for their families?"

"The others"? I assume you are using that word in the sense of the artificial, anti-white concept invented by jewish anthropologist Claude Lévi-Strauss? Cultural marxists sure love that concept.

Well, anyone can pursue wealth and prosperity as they darn well please; as long as they do not harm others and abstain from fraud, coercion or the initiation of force.

I am quite amazed you assume my position is that "the others" (meaning non-whites, right?) cannot or should not seek wealth and prosperity in a non-violent manner that does not imply the coercive power of the State. Where did I even so much as hinted at that?

"We do not have the right to showcase our skills in ways that do not include entertaining you?"

I do not get were "entertaining me" fits the equation. Neither do I remember saying anything about entertainment in my post.
And AA isn't about anyone "showcasing skills". Its about state-enforced racial and sexual discrimination in workplace and academia. This whole paragraph makes no sense within this discussion.

Last but not least, there is no such thing as "rights". Those are just fictional ideas. Nice ideas, yes; but no more than that. You can either attempt and accomplish something or you can't. Nice fictions of the mind bear no relevance in that.

Vargr said...

"We do not deserve a chance to sit in a classroom next to your kids?"

I do not have any kids. And if I did, AA isn't about "a chance" for yours to sit next to mine. It is about the State threatening me and the school with violence if we happen not to want your kids there, for whatever reason.

"We cannot move into your neighborhood?"

The neighborhood is not mine. But if it was my private property I would decide who could and could not live there for whatever reasons I deemed correct. The same way I decide who is invited and not into my house.

"Is this what you are saying VARGR?"

No. Most of that was just you putting words into my mouth.

"This is that bullshit VARGR."

That is just your subjective opinion. "Bullshit" isn't a very scientific term. And you didn't demonstrate in the slightest why and how it is "bullshit". You limited yourself to making personal attacks, assumed things about me and placed words in my mouth.

"Opinions like yours is one of the reasons that this country will always be fucked up when it comes to race relations and treating people fairly."

Oh Yes. It's *opinions* like mine that are one of the major factors of why race relations are screwed up in your country. Not the *actions* of the different races, cultures and people there. It is all the fault of opinions. It is opinions that are ethnically cleansing blacks out of their neighborhoods in California, not chicanos. It's opinions that are raping thousands of white females per year, not black men. It's opinions that are out there dealing drugs, stealing cars and pimping women; not the dealers, thieves and pimps organized in ethnic gangs.

"Opinions like yours is the reason that so many people game the system."

How so? My opinions are to blame for other people who I have never met committing fraud in a country i do not live in? That is a pretty bold statement, can you prove it? Or are you just making baseless ad hominem attacks again?

Vargr said...

"Opinions like yours is the reason why I will always be viewed as a BLACK man instead of a MAN..."

So? If you have an issue with your own blackness that is your problem, not mine.

I have no problem or shame about my race, and I certainly do not want to be perceived as some amorphous "human male". I belong to an ethnicity, culture and linguistic group. I have an heritage and history wish share with millions of others. It is part of who I am and I expect others to take that into account when they view me.

"I cannot stand people like you VARGR."

You do not even know me, you make multiple false assumptions about me and you already detest me. Why is it so? Is it because I am white? Do you have a problem with my whiteness Mt. Blackman?

My position is that AA is immoral because it is based on state- enforced coercion via threat of use of force encroaching in what should be voluntary associations between free human beings. And I particularly detest it because those effected negatively by it belong, overwhelmingly, to my people.

So far you have failed utterly to demonstrate how my position is wrong or immoral.

You have demonstrated quite well why you don't agree with it: because if I had my way and AA vanished you and your people could no longer enjoy the benefits of money and opportunities stolen from mine.

"I would probably be cool with you as long as I did not try to walk beside you or move in the house beside you...the one with the bigger yard..."

I do not live in a house I live in an apartment and I never had a yard. The average black in the USA is more wealthy than the average white in my country. Again...you assume things about me just because I am white, and accuse me of having preconceived notions about yourself...talk about chutzpah.

"or date your daughter. The minute I cross that line...I am an affirmative action case."

What does race-mixing have to do with AA?

If I was a father, and had a daughter (or a son), I would sure be interested in knowing who they were dating. And I would reserve myself the right to put an end to it if the suitor didn't fit my standards...black, yellow, red, white, brown or otherwise.

Vargr said...

"And the system that allowed me to do those things is all of a sudden "ANTI-WHITE."

No. That system is anti-white because it discriminates against whites in favor of non-whites, using the coercive power of State-enforced coercion by threats of violence. If you cannot understand something as simple as this, I do not know how to make it any plainer.

"Was it "anti-white" before?"

I am not an expert in AA history and neither do I care much about it. I care about how it is here and now. But to answer your question, at its very inception AA was just anti-male; I do not know the precise date when it began enforcing discrimination against whites in favor of non-whites but I am sure the Library of Congress has that data.

"When everything was all "white?"Was it "ANTI-WHITE" when I was a step behind and you were in front?"

When were you ever a step behind me? We have never even met. We do not live in the same country.

But I know what you are doing here. Typical cultural marxism. You are projecting, you are falsely incorporating into yourself all the alleged evils ever committed by a white on a black over there in the past (and ignoring all the evils committed by blacks on whites, which are on a all-time high right now) and turning me into a symbol of those past aggressors, which I have absolutely *zero* to do with.

Stop pretending to be a victim Mr. Blackman. And stop accusing me of being the one that is victimizing you.

"Huh, VARGR?"

I think I have made my points sufficiently clear, yes.

Vargr said...

"I apologize if someone "undeserving" took your promotion or your kids college tuition."

That has never happened, we have no AA over here. And if it had happened, Mr. Blackman, you would not be the one that owed me an apology. The person who had used the coercion of the State to deny me my deserved promotion, or my kid's tuition, simply on account of the color of our skins would be the one owing me an apology.

You see, unlike what you are doing here Mr. Blackman, I do not blame an entire race of people for the actions of a few of its members. And I don't hold people to account for alleged past actions of people who might, or might not, have been their ancestors in a time before they were even born.

"Or for the fact that the man that represents this country to the world (for the time being anyway) is of a darker hue than you."

It is not your fault something like 98% of black voters choose Obama just because he is dark-hued and felt a greater affinity towards him based on racial solidarity. You have nothing to apologize for.

"A man who so many people like you think is unqualified by the way..."

I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day. :)

Yes Mr. Blackman, I do think Obama is unqualified. He is a moron and a psychopath. Exactly like Bush before him and like his adversary Romney. They are all scum. 99% of the bureaucrats in DC are monsters who have signed themselves away from the human species. They are little more than animals.

But you know what? Between a black psychopathic moron and a white psychopathic moron I will choose the white guy. The same way you will take the black guy. If we must be ruled by monsters, at lest let the monster be a member of our people. He might not hurt us as bad as he hurts the others.

"Who would have thunk it? An "affirmative action" case made it to the White House...."

The only reason Obama is in the white house is because *he is* an AA case. That and all the support and money he got from jews, corporations and self-hating desingenous white liberals. Obama is just an empty suit, a robot, a non-entity, a servant to his handlers who control the money, exactly the same way as all your recent presidents. The fact he is dark-hued does not make one dime of difference.

Vargr said...


"Naaa.. Fuck that.

I ain't apologizing for shit."

Neither am I Mr. Blackman. And I don' recall ever asking you to apologize for anything. Again, please stop this farce of playing the role of the "victim". It is really getting old and it doesn't work anymore.

"Welcome to my World VARGR."

It is not YOUR world Mr Blackman; it is EVERYONE's world. You really come off as having a massive ego.

"And I thank little Blond haired Blue Eyed Baby Jesus that you are just like me...

Jesus, if he ever existed seeing there is no historical proof of such, was a middle-eastern semite. So he would not be blonde or blue eyed.

You seem to have a fascination with people of nordic descent Mr. Blackman...all these mentions about blue eyes and blonde hair...I wonder why that is.

"running nothing but your mouth"

Wait, you are thanking the Almighty that I am a person who engages civilly in dialogue over the internet? What did you expect? Violent action? Threats? Coercion?

No Mr. Blackman, I don't play that game. I leave the violence out of my social interactions...unlike people who make use of "affirmative action".

D. McAuliffe said...

I'm black and I disagree with affirmative action because I do not like the idea of black people having to ask the same government that oppresses them for job positions.

I believe that we should not have to go to these white companies who would never hire blacks if there were no affirmative action for jobs.

Of course, I understand the reasoning behind affirmative action. Affirmative Action exists because racism, classism, and sexism exist. If we can uproot those "isms," then we will no longer require programs like Affirmative Action. Unfortunately, these isms have become a part of the social fabric of America. They never are destroyed; they merely change form.

Now, regarding Afirmative Action being "anti-white." If I were a white American male such as VARGR, I too would probably believe that AA were against me. This is a program that exists to give minorities a chance. As a white male in America, I would benefit from white privilege. I am sure VARGR knows about white privilege; I am curious as to what his opinions on it are.

Regardless of his opinions, however, white privilege exists. Especially if you're a white male. Which means that you go through life in America without knowing what real racial discrimination is. Sure, there are a lot of people who do not like white people. But what does it matter what they think? They are not in any position to change the fact that white is still right in 2012. They do not hold the power: white males do.

As a white male who enjoys white privilege, you would perhaps hear of programs like affirmative action, which you would subsequently deem racist. You would argue that middle class white males are being forgotten, discriminated against, etc. But the truth is, you still form the majority of the American majority. You are the American people. The problem is that when you hear of something that exists to help minorities, you see it as unfair because you think there is no reason to help minorities. You think that everyone in America is equal, or at least that everyone has the same opportunities.

This assertion is false.

America, like any other nation, will have a specific class that benefits from certain institutions, which causes the marginalization of anyone who doesn't belong to the majority. Middle class white Americans form the majority of the population of the United States, thereby reducing those who do not belong to that group as inferior to the majority. Even if these ideas are no longer manifested in forms like blatant legal racism, they are still very much embedded in our national consciousness.

Is AA anti-white? No. It is pro-minority. The cold hard truth is that as a dominant class, white people have no need for programs to help them overcome the type of discrimination minorities face. When they go to good suburban schools, live in relatively stable 2-parent households, and make relatively "good" money, white people are already that much further ahead than the black kid from Detroit whose single mom is a drug addicts, and who is forced to drop out of school to support his mom and his younger brother.

Again, I don't support AA because I feel it perpetuates the idea that black people should "integrate" with people who don't want us there. We need to be the ones owning the companies, not the ones begging for jobs at companies that only hire us because they have some quota to fill. But at the same time, white people must realize that until they have been through the demoralizing and abhorrent drama that black people and other minorities have been through, they will never be in any sort opposition to feel the real sting of racism, and therefore never understand why programs like AA exist.

Dirty Red said...

VARGR,
First I want to thank you for taking the time to read and epress your opinion on what I wrote. I am trying to take this writing thing to another level and this blog is helping me do so. I hope that we will continue to have "healthy" discussions about the topics I choose to write on.

However....
This is the last time I will endulge you on this subject. It is pretty obvious that we will never agree totally. As I said I do not like AA...but I understand it. You are coming from a place where you could never understand seeing as how that you admitted that you are not American and you do not pay attention to the American media.. Therefore everything you think you know..you just think you know. You obvisiouly have no clue what it is like to be discriminated against for no other reason other than the color of your skin, your sex or who you choose to live your life with. So in my opinion you have no logical right to voice "facts and examples" about some shit you have not experianced. Your opinion is based on how ever the hell you get your second hand information. My opinion is based on first hand experiance. I have lived through it. I have been dealing with racism and discrimination my entire life, so this kinda sorta makes me an expert. So basicully what I'm saying is, you can shut the fuck up about shit you know nothing about. Now I understand that I don't know you.. You could be an Professor of American History in whatever country you call home. But until you walk in my shoes or anyones shoes that has lived here in The United States of America and has actually been through the bullshit...you needs to keep your ignorance of the facts to people that don't know any better. To them you may sound like you understand and that you are up on what's really going on in the world...but to me and others like me you sound like an idiot.
In the future I hope we can have debates on whatever I choose to write on..but this conversation here is over.

D,
Thanks for the comment brah. You touched on some points that I was thinking about, but I coudln't find the right way to express it. It is always good to have someone intelligent to go over your work and point out shit you forgot. I appreciate it.

Reggie said...

As I said before, I don't like the thought of Affirmative Action and I for one have never benefitted from it anyway. I like the idea of the very best candidate receiving their due. One would think that in a supposedly free and open society such as ours that anything like this just wouldn't be necessary. However, I have lived in this country for almost five decades. The ideal of America is lost on so many Americans. Given my life's experiences I clearly understand why WHITE MEN decided that it was a good idea for our country.